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[0:21] <mib_2eqf7rox> Hello everybody, Is there an Openbravo 2.50 beta installer ?
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[3:30] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: David Baz Fayos <david.baz <at> openbravo.com> default * 3482:26239734c7e5 /src-db/database/sourcedata/AD_TEXTINTERFACES.xml: Added missing fields of AD_TEXTINTERFACES
[3:30] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: David Baz Fayos <david.baz <at> openbravo.com> default * 3483:d73cff07dd06 / (935 files in 181 dirs): Upgrade from Dojo 1.2.3 to Dojo 1.3.0
[3:30] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: David Baz Fayos <david.baz <at> openbravo.com> default * 3484:8377d13495a9 /src-db/database/sourcedata/AD_TEXTINTERFACES.xml: Merge heads A and B
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[3:40] <huanglin> Hi everyone, I am trying to build openbravo erp in eclipse, eclipse cannot find build/javasqlc folder
[3:41] <huanglin> how can I # First to be compiled, obtaining *.java files inside build/javasqlc folder?
[3:42] <huanglin> I removed the build folder, and then import all the contents into the build folder, is it right way to do?
[3:44] <huanglin> thanks in advance.
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[9:01] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: Vinoth Babu <vinoth.babu <at> openbravo.com> default * 3485:43295eecc859 /src-db/database/sourcedata/AD_REF_LIST.xml: Fixes bug 8333 Pulldown value has changed to 'Locked by REQUISITION' instead of 'Locked by REQUISTISION'
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[11:18] <AlienMike> Hello, Im trying OB 2.50 beta and having trouble with modules. I have created the module and the postgres table. I have created a new Tables record under Tables and Columns. Now I try to import the columns and it says it was successfull, but 0 columns are imported. Can anyone hr help?
[11:21] <AlienMike> actually the should be Create Columns from DB - When I press ok on the popup I briefly see a message before the popup closes, "complimenting the operation?" - I hv no idea what that means
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[11:34] <AlienMike> Never mind - I figured it out - created the table in the wrong db
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[11:50] <mputter> I wonder: is there a way to subdivide products into an hierarchical product category structure ?
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[12:15] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: Rajagopal Baskaran <rajagopal.baskaran <at> openbravo.com> default * 3486:e6f3e194b6b8 /src-db/database/sourcedata/AD_TEXTINTERFACES.xml: Fixes bug 7736 Pending Production Report the label names in the title has been fixed.
[12:15] <CIA-44> OpenbravoPOS: mirurita * r571 /trunk/transformations/Taxes.ktr:
[12:15] <CIA-44> OpenbravoPOS: Issue 0008353: Error Running Syncronization betwwen Openbravo 2.50
[12:15] <CIA-44> OpenbravoPOS: and OpenbravoPOS 2.30
[12:34] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: David Baz Fayos <david.baz <at> openbravo.com> default * 3487:73976707f363 /src/org/openbravo/erpCommon/ad_forms/FileImport.html: Fixed bug 8371: Changed button 'Search' label with 'Process'
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[12:55] <cristi_an> dash: hi
[12:56] <cristi_an> anybody know the difference between fiscal printer and receipt printer ?
[12:57] <huehner> jarekwozniak: can you help here?
[12:57] <huehner> cristi_an: answer will take some time pos people are not here for some 30min at least (meeting)
[12:58] <cristi_an> huehner: thx a lot.
[12:58] <cristi_an> i will reask later then...
[13:09] <cristi_an> trifon: hello bulgaria
[13:09] <trifon> cristi_an: hello
[13:10] <trifon> cristi_an: are you from Bulgaria?
[13:10] <cristi_an> trifon: adempier has a swing pos ?
[13:10] <cristi_an> no i am from romania
[13:10] <trifon> cristi_an: yes. Ademepire has POS, web pos.
[13:11] <cristi_an> beisde web pos , i mean a desktop like POS ?
[13:11] <trifon> cristi_an: yes.
[13:11] -ci-update- erp_devel_pi-inc-pgsql build failed (http://builds.openbravo.com/job/erp_devel_pi-inc-pgsql/83/) last commit(s): David Baz Fayos <david.baz@openbravo.com>,Rajagopal Baskaran <rajagopal.baskaran@openbravo.com>
[13:11] <trifon> Adempeire has Swing POS intergated in Ademepire.
[13:11] <cristi_an> trifon: i see
[13:12] <trifon> cristi_an: are yuo from ArchiPack?
[13:12] <trifon> cristi_an: working with Teo?
[13:12] <cristi_an> i know teo sarca..a little..excenaged 2,3 mails....
[13:13] <cristi_an> but no...
[13:13] <cristi_an> i am not working on archpac..
[13:13] <trifon> cristi_an: ok. i was in Romania last year for 4-5 time.
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[13:14] <trifon> i was working with BitSoftware.
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[13:14] <trifon> cristi_an: do you know this company?
[13:15] <cristi_an> yes
[13:15] <cristi_an> oradea and timisoara
[13:16] <cristi_an> i wanted to colaborate with them...but ademipere for my clietns is too heavy...( tehy are firmsa iwth 2,3 employees)
[13:16] <trifon> cristi_an: are you working with OpenBravoERP or Compiere/Ademepire or SocrateOpen?
[13:16] <trifon> i see.
[13:16] <cristi_an> hehe ...i have my custom easy java erp :)
[13:16] <cristi_an> but now i need a POS...
[13:17] <trifon> GardenWorld: i see.
[13:17] <cristi_an> i hvae that as well cusom made...but i would like to give open bravo a try
[13:17] <trifon> OpenBravo POS is good./
[13:17] <trifon> i like it.
[13:17] <trifon> i track TinaPOS since the begging.
[13:17] <cristi_an> yes tina it was :)
[13:17] <cristi_an> i was inspired by tina for my cusom one...
[13:17] <cristi_an> but from what i see tehy eveolved A LOT
[13:19] <trifon> cristi_an: sure. lot of people can do and contribute more
[13:19] <cristi_an> BTW adempiere...does not think about a standalone POS ?
[13:20] <cristi_an> or you recommend open bravo's
[13:20] <trifon> for Ademepire. if you need standalone pos then beter use external like openbravo pos.
[13:21] <trifon> but if you need your pos transactions to be synchronized immediate then use embeded in Ademepire pos.
[13:21] <cristi_an> no need for like "real time"
[13:22] <cristi_an> it is enogh once a day..at closing to synch with an exteranl erp
[13:22] <huehner> priyam: iarwain could you check the latest build-failure? looks unrelated to the latest commits
[13:23] <priyam> ggi: huehner I see "[workflow] 0 [main] ERROR org.hibernate.util.JDBCExceptionReporter - ERROR: relation "ad_package" does not exist"
[13:24] <huehner> priyam: correct it is a standard table, not newly created
[13:24] <huehner> priyam: and not touched by the latest two commits
[13:24] <huehner> priyam: could you check that the database is still populated with any tables, and this table in special?
[13:25] <priyam> sure
[13:25] <DMA02> hey, I was just looking at adempire
[13:26] <DMA02> when you talk about their embedded pos you're not talking about liberto right
[13:26] <DMA02> they have like 3 or 4 different POS names circulating on their site that just confuses me
[13:26] <trifon> DMA02: Libero is not POS.
[13:26] <trifon> It is Manufacturing module/Functionality.
[13:27] <cristi_an> from what i know they have an embeeded one and a web based...trfon can give you more details
[13:27] <trifon> Yes. Adempeire has Embeded POS and WEB Based POS.
[13:27] <DMA02> on the site they have libero listed as their pos with some eEvolution thing
[13:27] <trifon> just this two.
[13:27] <DMA02> also that SwingPOS
[13:27] <trifon> DMA02: this is just a project to create third.
[13:27] <trifon> but still not finished.
[13:28] <trifon> DMA02: working at thi soment are embeded Swing POS and Web POS.
[13:28] <trifon> DMA02: if you would like to ask me about Ademprie, please come to Ademepire channel. i do not want to flood OpenBravo channels.
[13:28] <DMA02> hmm I will
[13:29] <trifon> i can answer here too, but i do not want to make bad impression with flood.
[13:29] <DMA02> it's ok, it is understandable
[13:37] <cristi_an> guys from OPEN-BRAVO POS are back from meeting ?
[13:37] <huehner> cristi_an: sorry, meeting is still ongoing
[13:38] <huehner> cristi_an: and most are not here on irc during that
[13:38] <cristi_an> huehner: you work for open bravo ?
[13:38] <huehner> cristi_an: yes
[13:38] <cristi_an> spain ?
[13:38] <huehner> cristi_an: in pamplona/spain
[13:39] <cristi_an> nice place....:) bull fights :)
[13:39] <cristi_an> tomatoes:)
[13:40] <huehner> cristi_an: but bad weather this week ;) but normally quite nice for northern europe in this time of the year
[13:41] <cristi_an> for northern europe
[13:41] <cristi_an> ???
[13:42] <huehner> cristi_an: Pamplona is very near to france so different weather then south of spain i mean
[13:43] <trifon> huehner: i have benn only to Madrid and Canry Islands.
[13:43] <trifon> I like more the islands.
[13:43] <trifon> from Madrid say just a little bit.
[13:44] <cristi_an> ok..i since when you say northrtn europe i was thinking at sweden norway ,,and i was confused
[13:44] <huehner> trifon: here weather in influenced a lot by the nearby montain... have not been yet to other parts
[13:44] <huehner> cristi_an: right... was a bit confusing sorry ;)
[13:50] <ggi> mtaal: can you give us some tips for this error: http://rafb.net/p/WtJ2VR15.html
[13:52] <cristi_an> huehner: at least do you know if developing POS eclipse or netbeans is used ?
[13:53] <DMA02> netbeans is used
[13:54] <cristi_an> DMA02: you are dev here as well ?
[13:54] <DMA02> no
[13:54] <DMA02> but I installed the pos on eclipse and netbeans
[13:54] <DMA02> and netbeans has the advantage that you see the forms and gui with its internal builder
[13:54] <DMA02> in eclipse you don't but (i believe) its easier to navigate source code with eclipse
[13:55] <cristi_an> do you know the diff btween fiscal printer and receipt printer ?
[13:55] <cristi_an> i isntalled in eclipse but i saw the forms files:)
[13:55] <DMA02> nope
[13:55] <DMA02> the form xml files are used by netbeans
[13:56] <cristi_an> i know..that is why i asked...
[13:56] <cristi_an> since ..form files...are from netbeans
[13:57] <cristi_an> but .project is
[13:57] <cristi_an> eclipse project...files :)
[13:57] <DMA02> yeah
[13:57] <DMA02> I prefer eclipse to netbeans
[13:57] <cristi_an> and i was...again confused :)
[13:57] <DMA02> understandable
[13:58] <cristi_an> DMA02: so you use this in a prod environment ?
[13:58] <DMA02> not yet
[13:58] <DMA02> i'm evaluating the software on our POS machines
[13:58] <cristi_an> POS ...real pos ?
[13:59] <cristi_an> those support java to be installed ?
[13:59] <DMA02> yeah
[13:59] <DMA02> it's basically a pc
[13:59] <cristi_an> do they have like regula monitors ?
[13:59] <DMA02> touch screen monitor
[13:59] <cristi_an> http://www.anzisoft.ro/
[13:59] <DMA02> yeah a big one
[13:59] <cristi_an> not like this one
[13:59] <cristi_an> ?
[13:59] <cristi_an> and you produce such terminals ? POS ?
[14:00] <cristi_an> hardware ?
[14:00] <huehner> cristi_an: pos netbeans, erp eclipse
[14:00] <DMA02> no don't produce them
[14:00] <DMA02> we buy them froma supplier in korea
[14:00] <DMA02> and install POS software in it and sell them a solution with backoffice stuff
[14:01] <DMA02> it has a bluetooh barcode scanner
[14:01] <DMA02> saw the site
[14:01] <DMA02> something like that but different
[14:01] <DMA02> the screen I have is much bigger
[14:01] <DMA02> and the customer display screen is bigger too
[14:02] <cristi_an> DMA02: i want to do the same :)
[14:02] <cristi_an> i have my own custom erpo in backend
[14:02] <cristi_an> but nowdays..
[14:02] <cristi_an> i say many poeple need POS
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[14:30] <cristi_an> huehner: they are stiil in meentings ?
[14:31] <huehner> cristi_an: i am afraid yes... but i really hope its finished soon (10min)
[14:32] <cristi_an> long meeting are not productive :)
[14:32] <cristi_an> people get bored..and forget what they have to do :)
[14:32] <cristi_an> (joke)
[14:33] <cristi_an> i worked onece in a company and i had like 3 prj manager and i was the dev
[14:33] <cristi_an> :)
[14:33] <cristi_an> long meetings...1 man worked
[14:35] <huehner> cristi_an: off-topic there is new blog post about pos moving to the openbravo forge on the planet, perhaps interesting while waiting for our meeting to finish
[14:36] <huehner> cristi_an: pleas re-ask your question to jarekwozniak
[14:36] <cristi_an> huehner: where is this blog post ?
[14:37] <cristi_an> huehner: thx...for support
[14:38] <jarekwozniak> cristi_an: http://planet.openbravo.com/
[14:38] <jarekwozniak> here are all blogs
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[14:50] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: hello :)
[14:50] <cristi_an> back from meeting ?
[14:50] <jarekwozniak> hi
[14:50] <jarekwozniak> yeap
[14:51] <jarekwozniak> but im going for lunch soon :P
[14:51] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: i will not want to take too much from you time..
[14:51] <cristi_an> ok i contact you later ?
[14:51] <jarekwozniak> now it is ok
[14:51] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: i want to adapt the POS for my backend erp and for Romania
[14:52] <cristi_an> i have exp in java like 9 years...
[14:52] <cristi_an> you work on this from open bravo ?
[14:52] <jarekwozniak> yes
[14:53] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: nice product !
[14:53] <cristi_an> i would liekto ask you the diff between fiscal printer and recipt printer
[14:55] <jarekwozniak> ok
[14:55] <cristi_an> and ehere in romania the program need to be certified in order to use a fiscal printer...
[14:56] <jarekwozniak> a receipt printer is a printer that prints a receipt for a customer
[14:56] <cristi_an> if we do not use fiscal printer,we need to conect the program to a cash register ,or to enter manually in the cash register
[14:56] <cristi_an> like a regular printer no (the receipt printer) ?
[14:57] <cristi_an> nothing specil relted to it ? or it is ?
[14:57] <jarekwozniak> a fiscal printer does the same and additionally prints and stores the all receipts for claiming taxes
[14:57] <jarekwozniak> so in the fiscal printer each receipt is printed actaulally twice
[14:58] <jarekwozniak> in pos you need a printer with esc/pos interface
[14:58] <cristi_an> fiscal printer is like a cah register but is like aprinter with fiscal memory
[14:58] <jarekwozniak> you can only connect to the cash register by a printer
[14:58] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: :sorry ?
[14:58] <jarekwozniak> yes a kind of
[14:59] <jarekwozniak> sorry
[14:59] <jarekwozniak> i meant cash drawer
[14:59] <jarekwozniak> u r right a fiscal printer register all cash transcations
[14:59] <cristi_an> it ahs a special memory...
[15:00] <cristi_an> at least here
[15:00] <cristi_an> so these two are how do i say or you use one..or the other ?
[15:00] <jarekwozniak> no it's averything on the paper
[15:01] <cristi_an> :(
[15:01] <cristi_an> confused...
[15:02] <jarekwozniak> sorry but im leaving now
[15:02] <cristi_an> can you give me sample of fiscal pritner on receipt printer ? Link
[15:02] <cristi_an> ok..
[15:02] <jarekwozniak> i'll be back later
[15:02] <jarekwozniak> see u
[15:02] <cristi_an> we can talk later..if you have time...
[15:02] <cristi_an> thx a lto :)
[15:02] <DMA02> jarekwozniak, I think he's trying to say if you use both printers at the same time or just 1
[15:02] <cristi_an> yes...:)
[15:02] <cristi_an> DMA02: thx...that is
[15:03] <DMA02> I think he's eating now :/
[15:03] <cristi_an> yee.bon apetite
[15:03] <DMA02> why would the fiscal printer have special memory?
[15:03] <cristi_an> wel in Romania
[15:03] <DMA02> to avoid intercept attack ?
[15:04] <cristi_an> i am not sure if fiscal printers have special memroy...
[15:04] <cristi_an> but cash register have...
[15:04] <cristi_an> may programm contects to a cash register and send via a driver..the sale lines...
[15:04] <cristi_an> those are recoreded in that fiscal memeory of the cash register
[15:05] <DMA02> I know at some laws require you to not store financial info in printer spooler memory
[15:05] <cristi_an> (to avoid frauds)
[15:05] <DMA02> ah ok
[15:05] <DMA02> what do they use in romania right now?
[15:06] <DMA02> if you go to a normal store and see their POS setup ... do they use 2 printers or 1
[15:06] <cristi_an> 1 printer :)
[15:07] <DMA02> so maybe they only use a fiscal printer
[15:08] <DMA02> http://www.mastercomputers.ro/epson_imprimanta.html
[15:09] <DMA02> http://www.eltrade.com/en/products/hardware/fiscal-printers
[15:10] <DMA02> ah ok.
[15:10] <DMA02> fiscal printer prints receipts and has a journal
[15:10] <DMA02> man this is like an ATM receipt printer too
[15:10] <DMA02> you give the journal to the government
[15:12] <cristi_an> i just spoke a phone
[15:13] <cristi_an> with a guy who sell epsons fiscal printert
[15:13] <cristi_an> all of them have fiscal memeory
[15:13] <cristi_an> yes they use fiscal printer...
[15:13] <cristi_an> DMA02: but when receipt pritner is needed?
[15:14] <DMA02> don't know, when you don't need to keep track of a journal
[15:14] <DMA02> in my country also we use fiscal printers
[15:14] <DMA02> cos the receipts are taxed
[15:15] <DMA02> I assume fiscal printers are more expensive than regular receipt printers
[15:16] <cristi_an> yes they are
[15:17] <cristi_an> what do tou mean receipt are texed ?
[15:17] <trifon> DMA02: eltrade is a Bulgarian coampny :)
[15:17] <DMA02> here if you make a financial transaction you need a receipt, each receipt you need to buy a stamp from the government and put on the receipt
[15:17] <DMA02> no stamp, no receipt.
[15:18] <cristi_an> http://www.eltrade.com/en/products/hardware/POS-printers
[15:18] <DMA02> so if you have like an ATM or cash register.. printing out many receipts.. you need to give a journal to the government and they tax you
[15:18] <cristi_an> there are pos printers (receipt printers) and fiscal printers
[15:18] <cristi_an> i guess
[15:18] <DMA02> to the most of my knowledge that's how they rip us off :)
[15:28] * effie_jayx (n=evalles@ubuntu/member/effie-jayx) has joined #openbravo
[15:36] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: Rajagopal Baskaran <rajagopal.baskaran <at> openbravo.com> default * 3488:616af0e3fc09 / (2 files in 2 dirs): Fixes bug 7835: Error message should be much clear to understand while doing \"Track & Process Employee Expenses\" has been fixed.
[15:46] -ci-update- erp_devel_main-inc-pgsql build failed (http://builds.openbravo.com/job/erp_devel_main-inc-pgsql/5/)
[15:49] * gmauleon (n=openbrav@143.Red-213-98-178.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #openbravo
[15:49] * gmauleon (n=openbrav@143.Red-213-98-178.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has left #openbravo
[15:49] <priyam> main build failure seems to be permission prblem, I m looking to it
[15:57] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: Martin Taal <martin.taal <at> openbravo.com> default * 3489:e2ac81921d1d /src/org/openbravo/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[15:57] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: Active filter was not automatically added to where-clause
[15:57] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: Generated Business Object did get ActiveEnabled interface assigned
[15:57] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: Added two convenience method to the OBDal
[16:17] <jarekwozniak> cristia_an: i've just chekceg that fisacl printers have internal memory to store all transactions
[16:19] <jarekwozniak> from my experience I have only had sth in common with fiscal cashes where there are 2 rolls of paper, one for customers, one for storing receipts
[16:19] <jarekwozniak> and receipt printers only print receipts for customers
[16:19] <jarekwozniak> was that yr question???
[16:20] <jarekwozniak> cristi_an: do u have ony other doubts?
[16:20] <jarekwozniak> any
[16:20] <cristi_an> i am here
[16:21] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: from what i know fiscal printer are printrs that have fiscal memeory and tehy have 2 rolls of paper
[16:22] <jarekwozniak> maybe: for sure they have an internal memory and i dont know anything second roll of paper for storing all transactions
[16:22] <cristi_an> what i was courious is in what use cases you use fiscal printer and when receipt printer
[16:22] <jarekwozniak> it is possible
[16:23] <jarekwozniak> with pos we dont work with fiscal printers
[16:23] <jarekwozniak> at all
[16:23] <jarekwozniak> pos only works with receipt printers
[16:24] <cristi_an> now you confues me...:)
[16:24] <cristi_an> since on wiki it said that open pos works with fiscal printer of receipt printers :)
[16:24] <cristi_an> Receipt printers. Supporting the ESC/POS protocol, providing a JavaPOS driver or a system driver
[16:25] <jarekwozniak> heh sorry
[16:25] <cristi_an> Fiscal printers. Providing a JavaPOS driver
[16:25] <jarekwozniak> what i mean is that we dont have any fiscal printers to test
[16:25] <cristi_an> i see....
[16:25] <cristi_an> :)
[16:25] <jarekwozniak> maybe they work normally but i cannot tell you that
[16:25] <jarekwozniak> ;)
[16:26] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: you are from spain ?
[16:26] <cristi_an> from name is poland
[16:26] <jarekwozniak> yep
[16:26] <jarekwozniak> im polish
[16:26] <cristi_an> this are very well know in romania
[16:26] <cristi_an> http://www.upos.com.pl/
[16:28] <cristi_an> http://www.upos.com.pl/oferta.php?id=1&s_id=1&lang=eng
[16:29] <jarekwozniak> nice
[16:30] <jarekwozniak> cristti_an: i've asked my boss about the printers and pos works with fiscal printers that provide javapos
[16:30] <cristi_an> cool
[16:31] <cristi_an> but you live in poland ?
[16:31] <cristi_an> or in spain ?
[16:31] <jarekwozniak> no in spain
[16:31] <cristi_an> http://www.upos.com.pl/cennik.php?id=51&lang=eng
[16:31] <cristi_an> this prices are HUGE !!!
[16:31] <jarekwozniak> yes
[16:33] <jarekwozniak> normal receipt printers are for about 200-300 euros
[16:33] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: one thing i do not understnad...if you use only receipt printers...is that allowed
[16:33] * thenthenio (n=mauro@217.221.242.42) has joined #openbravo
[16:33] <cristi_an> in spain or poland
[16:34] <cristi_an> ?
[16:34] <cristi_an> you do not need that device to be fiscalized ?
[16:34] <jarekwozniak> in poland yes
[16:35] <thenthenio> Hello!
[16:35] <cristi_an> same as in romania
[16:35] <jarekwozniak> most of the shops have fiscal cashes
[16:35] <jarekwozniak> hi
[16:35] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: indeed here as well
[16:35] <thenthenio> I have a problem with Openbravo...
[16:35] <jarekwozniak> probably in most of the countries
[16:36] <cristi_an> but 1200 EURO ???
[16:36] <thenthenio> I just created 3 clients to try but I'm not able to delete them
[16:36] <cristi_an> btw is possible to create ..invoces as well from Open Brapos POS ?
[16:37] <thenthenio> The interface holds for several minutes but then gives an error and the client is still there!
[16:38] <jarekwozniak> those printers are quite good. You get a customer dispaly, you can print barcodes, card management
[16:38] <jarekwozniak> cristi_an: normally you would need to buy everything seperatelly
[16:39] <jarekwozniak> yea but it is still very expensive
[16:39] <jarekwozniak> you cannot print invoices in openbravo pos. pos does not manage any accounting stuff. for that we provide synchronization with openbravo erp and you can do everyhing on the erp side
[16:40] <cristi_an> card amangement with that fiscal printer ?
[16:40] <cristi_an> why do i need to print barcodes with a fiscal printer ?
[16:40] <jarekwozniak> huehner: there is a question for u from thenthonio
[16:41] <jarekwozniak> the link that you sent me it shows that tis printer is with everything
[16:41] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: i see,but ...it is possible to create a module and then to import in (open erp or other)
[16:42] <jarekwozniak> for example if u have a shop you can print your labels and put on the products and then just scan barcodes by pos
[16:42] <cristi_an> and that can be done from the fiscal printer ?
[16:42] <cristi_an> for that is not need like special papaer...with glue :)
[16:43] <jarekwozniak> cristi_an: actually everything is already implemented and you only need to confiugure
[16:43] <jarekwozniak> by fiscal printer you can print barcodes
[16:43] <jarekwozniak> then u still a barcode scanner
[16:44] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: but you can print barcode with a recept printer no ?
[16:44] <jarekwozniak> yes too. on most of them
[16:44] <thenthenio> What happens to me is exactly what is in Openbravo issue 0000211, in that ticket they say the issue is closed and that a workaround is simply to restart the database., bu this does not work here!
[16:45] <huehner> thenthenio: hi, what error message do you get?
[16:46] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: you send each line in real time to printer ?
[16:46] <cristi_an> or when the receipt is closed ?
[16:46] <huehner> thenthenio: and note the delete client is really slow..
[16:46] <thenthenio> huehner: Something like this: Error: could not open relation with OID...
[16:47] <mputter> is there a way to subdivide products into an hierarchical product category structure ?
[16:47] <jarekwozniak> cristi_an: generally you print after closing a ticket. however you can print when a ticket is still open too after changing the settings
[16:48] <thenthenio> I suspect this happens also because the creation process of the clients 2 on 3 gave an error (can't remember exactly)...
[16:48] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: is this possible to do from settings ? to scan and print in real time ...like you go on big retail magasines.....probably you saw how things go there
[16:48] <huehner> thenthenio: nearly impossible to check for me without the error which did happen..
[16:49] <thenthenio> What error? The one during removal or during creation?
[16:50] <jarekwozniak> cristi_an: unfortunatelly pos does not provide that. you can implement it on your own
[16:50] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: sure...thx
[16:50] <cristi_an> cristi_an: for now i will install netbeans :)
[16:50] <huehner> thenthenio: both, sounds like two problems to explain/fix
[16:50] <cristi_an> and study code
[16:50] <cristi_an> netbeans...:) i preffer eclipse...but you use forms i saw
[16:53] <jarekwozniak> yeap. you can use eclipse if you want. however for swing netbeans is much better
[16:54] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: :) (we can argues about this forverver) matter of taste...
[16:54] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: thx for support a lot
[16:54] <cristi_an> come back with more....later...;)
[16:55] <jarekwozniak> heh i've changed from eclipse to netbeans and i find it better for swing
[16:55] <jarekwozniak> and for j2me too
[16:55] <jarekwozniak> eclipse is good for j2ee
[16:55] <jarekwozniak> :P
[16:55] <jarekwozniak> cristi_an: no problem
[16:56] -ci-update- erp_devel_pi-inc-pgsql build failed (http://builds.openbravo.com/job/erp_devel_pi-inc-pgsql/85/)
[16:56] <thenthenio> huehner: During creation the error was related to creation of master data process...
[16:57] <thenthenio> During delete it was Error: could not open relation with OID and a number
[17:00] <huehner> thenthenio: sounds like postgres (the last one)
[17:00] <huehner> thenthenio: only way to check/debug for enxt time. catch the complete errors message by copy'n'paste or screenshot, then you can i.e. use pastebin.ca to uplaod it and we can try to help
[17:01] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: you challenged me :)
[17:01] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: i used long time ago long time FORTE (father of netbeans)
[17:01] <cristi_an> swithcing to eclipse in 2002 was belsss
[17:01] <DMA02> :)
[17:02] <huehner> cristi_an: i think i remember forte by name... but long long time ago ;)
[17:02] <DMA02> it changed to SunONE studio
[17:02] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: for swing I never ever used...editor like matise...and i did a lot of swing...i just did it by hand...:)
[17:02] <cristi_an> DMA02: i guess yes...
[17:03] <cristi_an> :)
[17:03] <DMA02> I used to use it also a long time ago
[17:03] * effie_jayx (n=evalles@ubuntu/member/effie-jayx) Quit (Connection timed out)
[17:03] <DMA02> eclipse stole my heart
[17:03] <cristi_an> DMA02: same here
[17:03] <DMA02> and all the swing stuff... just draw it on paper and code it
[17:03] <cristi_an> addicted
[17:03] <cristi_an> DMA02: that is waht i do...
[17:03] <DMA02> but netbeans auto-gen code got a lot more sophisticated
[17:04] <DMA02> which just makes it take longer to do :P
[17:04] <cristi_an> DMA02: plugins...+ i hate gen code...
[17:04] <cristi_an> i mean...gen code that does not let me chage...uneditable :)
[17:04] <DMA02> I use abeille form designer for rapid prototyping
[17:04] <DMA02> it is editable now
[17:04] <DMA02> you can customize it
[17:05] <DMA02> but doing that takes time
[17:05] <DMA02> we should stop, or else a flame will start lol
[17:05] <cristi_an> yes....:)
[17:05] <DMA02> I need to go though.
[17:05] <DMA02> later
[17:06] <cristi_an> later !
[17:06] <cristi_an> nice to meet you guys
[17:07] * DMA02 (n=foo@194.126.6.206) Quit ("I am of the needing to be of the quit")
[17:10] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: sorry to disturb so soon :)
[17:10] <thenthenio> huehner: Given that mine is a fresh installation of Openbravo and that I do not care what is in the database, is there a way to clear is as it was just installed, with no clients (also without BigBazaar)?
[17:11] <cristi_an> i just se that src downlaoded are like an eclipse project
[17:11] <cristi_an> not as netbeans
[17:12] * onats (n=onats@unaffiliated/onats) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
[17:13] <thenthenio> Now I tried creating 2 new clients but now no error is coming out...
[17:13] <cristi_an> should i take the project from svn ?
[17:13] <cristi_an> in order to import as netbeans project
[17:14] <cristi_an> ?
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[17:15] -ci-update- erp_devel_pi-inc-pgsql build fixed (http://builds.openbravo.com/job/erp_devel_pi-inc-pgsql/86/)
[17:17] <jarekwozniak> yes
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[17:17] <jarekwozniak> have u seen the dev guide
[17:17] <jarekwozniak> ?
[17:17] <cristi_an> no
[17:17] <cristi_an> thx for pointg me to that
[17:17] <cristi_an> it is on wiki i assume
[17:18] <jarekwozniak> http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/OpenbravoPOS_Developer_guide
[17:18] <jarekwozniak> here u go
[17:18] <CIA-44> OpenbravoPOS: mirurita * r572 /trunk/transformations/Taxes.ktr:
[17:18] <CIA-44> OpenbravoPOS: Fixes issue 0008353: Error Running Syncronization betwwen Openbravo 2.50
[17:18] <CIA-44> OpenbravoPOS: and OpenbravoPOS 2.30
[17:18] <cristi_an> PERFECT !!!!
[17:18] <jarekwozniak> there are steps how to import pos into netbeans and eclipse
[17:27] <thenthenio> huehner: No, I was wrong, my system is unable to delete also clients that had no errors during creation!
[17:27] <thenthenio> The exact error is: Error: could not open relation with OID 16986
[17:28] * mputter (n=mputter@cust.8.127.adsl.cistron.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[17:29] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: Gorka Ion Damián <gorkaion.damian <at> openbravo.com> default * 3490:bab9d2f42e6c /src-db/database/model/functions/M_INOUT_CREATE.xml: Related to issue 7334. Fixed a postgresql/database problem.
[17:35] -ci-update- erp_devel_main-full-pgsql build fixed (http://builds.openbravo.com/job/erp_devel_main-full-pgsql/14/)
[17:44] <huehner> thenthenio: i guess this error is shown in the browser
[17:44] <huehner> thenthenio: could you please check three logfiles for more detailed error messages? (openbravo.log,tomcat-logfile i.e. catalina.out, and postgers logfile) ?
[17:53] <CIA-44> OpenbravoERP: Gorka Mauleon <gorka.mauleon <at> openbravo.com> default * 3491:0342347da77f / (7 files in 4 dirs): fixes 0008161: Not possible not to apply price adjustments for a specific order line
[17:54] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: threre are some jars missing from svn
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[17:55] <cristi_an> i guess...
[17:55] <cristi_an> can you commit all of them
[17:55] <cristi_an> like struts related jars ? (wonder why is used in a pos app but i will find out soon)
[17:56] <cristi_an> (pda will have a web interface ?) mayeb for that...
[17:56] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: however some jar i belive are missing
[17:57] <jarekwozniak> hmmm
[17:58] <jarekwozniak> you have imported too many folders
[17:58] <jarekwozniak> there should be 6 and you have 7
[17:58] <cristi_an> i imported trunk...
[17:58] <jarekwozniak> cristi-an: am i right
[17:58] <jarekwozniak> ?
[17:58] <cristi_an> i ahbve like 6 :)
[17:58] <jarekwozniak> in the guide you have all steps step by step
[17:59] <cristi_an> oki
[17:59] <jarekwozniak> in the trunk there are other projects too
[18:00] <jarekwozniak> you shpuld have reports, locales, src-pos, src-erp, src-data and src-beans imported
[18:00] <jarekwozniak> if you're saying that a struts libabry is missing it means that you have src-pda too
[18:00] <cristi_an> yes i iasked you :)
[18:01] <cristi_an> i am intersted in that too :)
[18:01] <jarekwozniak> src-pda folder is for the pda module project
[18:01] <cristi_an> if i remove that is ok
[18:01] <cristi_an> but i wouldlike to have that...
[18:01] <cristi_an> :)
[18:01] <jarekwozniak> but you should create a new project in netbeans to create it
[18:01] <cristi_an> i see
[18:01] <cristi_an> that is independednt
[18:01] <cristi_an> i got it
[18:02] <jarekwozniak> on the botton of the guide there are steos how to import pda module too
[18:02] <jarekwozniak> bottom
[18:02] <cristi_an> i start to like this project :)
[18:02] <cristi_an> there are DOCS !!!
[18:02] <cristi_an> wow...rarely you see this
[18:03] <jarekwozniak> still a lots are missing but we are working on that...
[18:03] <jarekwozniak> slowly ;)
[18:03] <cristi_an> you knwo the word slowly but surely
[18:03] <cristi_an> maybe i can help you...on coding...soon but on docs ...:( i love them to read but i hate to do them
[18:04] <jarekwozniak> me too :>
[18:04] <cristi_an> ;)
[18:04] <jarekwozniak> crisi_an: have you already seen http://forge.openbravo.com ?
[18:05] <jarekwozniak> you can create your projects there and work with your stuff on the top of openbravo pos
[18:06] <jarekwozniak> and have you seen the forums? we have a lot of people writing there and for sure you might find a lot of answers getting depper into pos
[18:07] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: well i finfifn out today ..when you were in meeting
[18:07] * gorkaion_ (n=gorkaion@109.pool85-54-201.dynamic.orange.es) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[18:07] <cristi_an> thx...for sure i will create an account...and start my work there
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[18:13] <CIA-44> DBSourceManager: marvintm * r268 /branches/r0.8x/src/org/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fixes on the export.removed.objects.file task. Removed module-specific update task, as it's specific behaviour has been integrated inside the standard update.customized.database task for improved maintenance.
[18:13] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: do you know if some firms adapted open erp fro romania ?
[18:15] <jarekwozniak> there are some guys translating erp and pos so probably they have some knowledge about it
[18:15] <cristi_an> open erp eveolved quite a lot recent years
[18:15] <cristi_an> now i tried demo and is movinfgfast now
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[18:31] <cristi_an> jarekwozniak: congrats for pos...
[18:34] * ruoso (n=ruoso@201.45.49.162) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
[18:34] <cristi_an> i look at code (and it looks ) like written bt pros...so cool !
[18:35] <cristi_an> hope it iwll be easty to underastand...but told you my firs impression
[18:42] <thenthenio> Where to pastebin big log files?
[18:47] <katratxo> thenthenio: http://pastebin.ca ?
[18:58] <thenthenio> I get this from filebin: Array ( [0] => /home/slepp/filebin/76be39597f89f0716d79445e4e2019542e59203c: OK [1] => ) Array ( [file] => Array ( [name] => postgresql-8.1-main.log [type] => text/x-log [tmp_name] => /web/tmp/phpSuBkVl [error] => 0 [size] => 5098020 ) )
[18:59] <thenthenio> Was it an error? Where is the link to post?
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[19:52] <mib_mp6r2r5m> hallo
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[19:55] <mib_mp6r2r5m> could not find value for key log4j.appender.01 in compile.translate.modules.... Anybody knows what this is?
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[20:10] <mtaal> Hi mib_mp6r2r5m, can you print the log before and after this message (and the message itself)?
[20:13] <mib_mp6r2r5m> First thank you for the reply.
[20:14] <mib_mp6r2r5m> could not instantiate appender named "01" is the line following
[20:15] <mib_mp6r2r5m> I tried a complete compile using 2.50 alpha 11
[20:16] <mib_mp6r2r5m> compile.translate.modules
[20:17] <mtaal> ok, this type of message should normally not stop the build process
[20:17] <mtaal> it actually only means that log4j can't find a place to write some log messages to
[20:17] <mtaal> does the build process continue after this message?
[20:19] <mib_mp6r2r5m> yes it seems that it continued. I started it this morning and went to work
[20:21] <mib_mp6r2r5m> but the build failed... :-(
[20:21] <mtaal> okay but that should be something else
[20:22] <mib_mp6r2r5m> org.hibernate.hql.ast.Hqltoken classnotfoundexception
[20:24] <mib_mp6r2r5m> org.hibernate.Queryexception select ur from ADUserRoles
[20:24] <mtaal> this happens during the build?
[20:24] <mtaal> or when starting the app?
[20:26] * anonychus (n=EdgarMej@65.167.93.114) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[20:26] <mib_mp6r2r5m> during the build. i did not install yet
[20:27] * elopio (n=elopio@200.122.185.199) has joined #openbravo
[20:27] <mib_mp6r2r5m> the table ad_user_roles exists
[20:27] <mtaal> it seems that a jar file is not present
[20:28] <mtaal> can you print the complete stack trace?
[20:29] <mib_mp6r2r5m> sorry how? i run it in a terminal window *Suse 10.3)
[20:29] <mib_mp6r2r5m> i can try again if you tell me that to do many thanks
[20:29] <mtaal> I think you can also select the content of a terminal window with a mouse
[20:30] <mtaal> and then under the edit menu (if there) of the terminal window there is a copy option
[20:30] <anonychus1> when release open bravo pos 2.30 version?
[20:31] <mib_mp6r2r5m> BUILD FAILED/local/OpenbravoERP-2.50alpha-r11/r2.50alpha-r11/build.xml:457: org.hibernate.QueryException: ClassNotFoundException: org.hibernate.hql.ast.HqlToken [select ur from ADUserRoles ur where ur.userContact.id='0' and ur.active='Y' and ur.role.active='Y' order by ur.role.id asc]
[20:32] <mib_mp6r2r5m> the table has two rows in it in case this helps :-)
[20:32] <mtaal> normally this means that there is no antlr.jar in the classpath
[20:32] <mtaal> can you check if it is present in the lib/runtime directory?
[20:33] <mib_mp6r2r5m> yes
[20:33] <mib_mp6r2r5m> i will check
[20:43] <mtaal> Hi mib_mp6r2r5m
[20:43] <mtaal> I am sorry but I need to go
[20:43] <mtaal> I am back in hour or so
[20:44] <mib_mp6r2r5m> it's in /usr/shara/java
[20:45] * elopio (n=elopio@200.122.185.199) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[20:45] <mib_mp6r2r5m> ok I will wait thanks
[20:51] <mib_mp6r2r5m> shouldd it not be : select ur from AD_User_Roles ur where ur.userContact.id='0' and ur.active='Y' and ur.role.active='Y' order by ur.role.id asc
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[23:01] * cristi_an (i=5978d3ce@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-31c2cf5c1471cedd) has joined #openbravo
[23:01] <cristi_an> dash: hi
[23:02] <cristi_an> did you choosed open bravo's pos finally ?
[23:08] * gorkaion_ (n=gorkaion@34.112.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) has joined #openbravo
[23:09] <cristi_an> does anybody knows ,if openbrovo pos use some custom persitence level ?
[23:09] <cristi_an> some custom framework ?
[23:13] * DMA02 (n=foo@91.142.56.47) has joined #openbravo
[23:14] <cristi_an> DMA02: hi
[23:15] <DMA02> cristi_an, hi man
[23:15] <cristi_an> DMA02: :openbrovo pos use some custom persitence level ?
[23:15] <DMA02> ummm I haven't really looked that deep but i'm going to guess and say no
[23:15] <DMA02> cos they're not using hibernate or anything like that
[23:16] <DMA02> and I only saw standard SQL queries and classes to deferentiate between different db langs.
[23:17] <DMA02> is this what you meant ?
[23:17] <cristi_an> i gues they took some things from openbravo erp
[23:17] <cristi_an> is something that looks like ORM but still has standard sql inside :)
[23:17] <cristi_an> i was just couriois
[23:18] <DMA02> oh, dunno... like i said.. I saw normal sql queries
[23:19] <cristi_an> there are some things like DirtyManager which usualy is a term used iin ORM's like hibernate
[23:19] <cristi_an> maybe is something in the middle ..custom ORM
[23:19] <DMA02> right, did you look in the class ?
[23:20] <DMA02> they use some "sentences"
[23:20] <DMA02> I saw that alot
[23:20] <DMA02> but what annoys me is the lack of documentation in the source code, well and of the source code in general
[23:20] <DMA02> you get big classes with many many methods and hardly any comments describing what the methods do
[23:22] <cristi_an> DMA02: yep ! but alsomes all open source are like that
[23:22] <DMA02> not all.
[23:22] <cristi_an> you need to pay for "consultancy " :)
[23:22] <huehner> DMA02: hibernate is introduced in 2.50 and slowly the manual sql-code will be changed to using hql/hibernate
[23:23] <DMA02> I developed on 2 projects on sf and I always make sure I put docs in the code
[23:23] <DMA02> also look at the apache-commons ..etc source code.. very nice style
[23:24] <DMA02> 2.50 is the ERP
[23:24] <huehner> DMA02: sorry missed that point, correct
[23:24] <DMA02> it's ok
[23:26] <DMA02> cristi_an, the ERP has much better docs than the POS
[23:27] <cristi_an> so in 2.50 will be hibernate ?
[23:27] <cristi_an> in POS ?
[23:28] <cristi_an> why this change....? since it for a standalone app i do not see the benefit and for very complex sqls ...hibernate become very complicated...you have to be an expert fot that
[23:30] <DMA02> no, 2.50 is the version of the ERP
[23:30] <DMA02> the new version of the POS is 2.30
[23:31] <cristi_an> so ... open erp ...choose hibernate
[23:31] <cristi_an> ?
[23:31] <DMA02> but you can use hibernate for a stand alone app... it supposed to make it easier to use different DBs and not change the code
[23:31] <DMA02> you put the schemas in xml and let hibernate persist the java object
[23:31] <cristi_an> DMA02: from that point of view yes
[23:31] <DMA02> it's a point of view I've seen hibernate be used many times
[23:31] <DMA02> and since the POS can support more than 3 different DBs.. it can use it
[23:32] <DMA02> but so far it doesn't
[23:32] <DMA02> seems like the ERP is moving towards using it
[23:32] <cristi_an> i also saw that being used ...but tell me honestly how many times did you changed the DB on a project ?
[23:33] <DMA02> a few times
[23:33] <DMA02> depends where you work
[23:33] <DMA02> I've changed between mysql, DB2 and derby once
[23:34] <huehner> DMA02: we are for erp , one reason is that it business logic is currently mostly inside the db in two languages for oracle and postgres
[23:34] <DMA02> and at another job we had a web-app server where it supposed to work on mysql, oracle, mssql and db2
[23:34] <huehner> DMA02: its translated automatically but maintaining the translation it is a burdon we want to get rid of
[23:34] <DMA02> huehner, yeah doing that manually takes effort
[23:35] <huehner> DMA02: the code is written only once, but you have to be careful about all the little differences so that it runs on both db's
[23:36] <DMA02> yeah
[23:38] * anonychus (n=EdgarMej@65.167.93.114) has joined #openbravo
[23:38] <cristi_an> so open bravo will be migrted to hibernate ?
[23:38] <cristi_an> from what i heard it uses a lot of stored procedures....
[23:38] <cristi_an> how you will deal with those then ?
[23:38] <cristi_an> huehner:
[23:38] <cristi_an> ?
[23:39] <katratxo> cristi_an: those will be 'translated' to java code .. in future releases
[23:39] <huehner> cristi_an: erp yes. plan is to migrate them to java code accessing the db via hibernate
[23:39] <huehner> cristi_an: starting for the 2.60 release, but don't know if it will be done completely for 2.60
[23:40] <cristi_an> huehner: that is execellent news and indeed a very good strategy
[23:40] <cristi_an> since compiere,adempiere...which are kind of father and grandfather of open bravo will never do that i guess
[23:42] <huehner> cristi_an: adempiere is more like a cousin i would say...
[23:42] <cristi_an> yes
[23:43] <cristi_an> huehner: but whats open bravo's story
[23:43] <cristi_an> ?
[23:43] <huehner> cristi_an: a i think i remember that compiere did move to ejb some years ago already... don't know how they exactly handled persisntence... container managed or manually
[23:43] <cristi_an> huehner: now that is "Bull s..it" exacuse me...using entity beans
[23:44] <huehner> cristi_an: http://www.openbravo.com/product/others/relationship-compiere/ should give some hints on the history
[23:44] <cristi_an> it is ok session beans ,mdb ,but...using entity beans...sucks..
[23:45] <cristi_an> so nowdays open erp has it;s own engine...
[23:45] <cristi_an> nice ...
[23:47] <huehner> don't know... no time to look at it so far
[23:47] <cristi_an> huehner: you are not empoyed by open bravo ?
[23:47] <cristi_an> btw how many employeee has ?
[23:47] <DMA02> you can look at the openbravo site
[23:47] <DMA02> has all that info
[23:47] <DMA02> bbl
[23:48] <huehner> cristi_an: yes and around 100
[23:48] <cristi_an> big...
[23:49] <cristi_an> hmm it is funding based...
[23:49] <cristi_an> do they have some fisca reports made public...:)
[23:50] <cristi_an> just courious since...i want to see if they became profitable :)
[23:50] <katratxo> i don't think that are public
[23:51] <cristi_an> in sweden ...all those reports are public
[23:51] <cristi_an> especialy for companies that live from funding
[23:52] <katratxo> not sure about the spanish laws
[23:52] <cristi_an> i see
[23:52] * ruoso (n=ruoso@201.45.49.162) has joined #openbravo
[23:52] <cristi_an> anyway ..we do have to care since it is open source :)
[23:54] <katratxo> about the hiberante topic, you can check the new data access layer project page, if you are interested http://wiki.openbravo.com/wiki/Projects/Data_Access_Layer
[23:54] <katratxo> says, 'to be started' but is finished
[23:55] <cristi_an> katratxo: you work for open bravo ?
[23:55] <katratxo> yeap as huehner
[23:56] <katratxo> in the erp side, so i don't know anything about pos :s
[23:56] <cristi_an> from 100 how many are read coders :)
[23:56] <cristi_an> real
[23:56] <cristi_an> since you for sure have a lot of sales guys and managers there
[23:56] <cristi_an> :)
[23:56] * anonychus1 (n=EdgarMej@190.90.32.42) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[23:57] <katratxo> hehehe yes, as almost all companies
[23:57] <katratxo> is hard to say, ... what is the definition of a 'real coder' ?
[23:59] <DMA02> you know one that is not fake :)
[23:59] <cristi_an> people who write code...not PM that tell you what to do and used to write code....10 years ago...
[23:59] <cristi_an> ok i reformulate;
[23:59] <cristi_an> developers
[23:59] <DMA02> the actual developers , excluding project managers who don't actually code and analysts
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